On 16 Dec 2020, August Abolins said the following...

On 12/15/2020 6:23 AM, between "Charles Pierson - August Abolins":

There are many, many echos that aren't listed. That doesn't mean they ar connected though.

Of course. That is part of the problem - they are not easily "known" to exist.

Fidonet or othernets for that matter are not particularly known to exist outside of the participants for that matter. Or if they are it's in a vague "old fashioned computer thing" that gets an occasional nostalgia article in computer articles.

Echos are limited by whatever the Sysop carries. I've read discussions a it where some sysops have said they only carry those areas which interes them. That's fair, it's their system after all. So it becomes a crap sho whether or not a particular Echo is on a particular system.

Crap shoot it certainly is. :( But that situation does not help to bolster users.

It's no good for example to have 3 different BBSes to boast that they carry Fidonet, when all 3 of them carry different combinations and/or
only a handful of echos and never plan to change.

Fidonet is not a business, Its a platform for and by hobbiests. These
hobbiests have different interests, so their BBSes are going to reflect thay.

You aren't likely to convince very many sysops to change how they do things. The way you would like things to be only stands a chance of happening is for people with views like yours to start BBSes in the way you would like to see them.

It would be nice if there was a more consolidated (and real-time) w announce active/live echos.

You aren't going to get real-time with FTN Technology. The best you'lll is those systems that have bots or whatever that post stats from their systems.

If "bot" is the closest to real-time, that would be great!

They post in the STATS echo. Which youpve already said is mind numbing for
you.

You have ECHO_ADS for Moderators to post about their echos.

The best thing that I can come up with for a typical BBS would be the sysop could post a bulletin with a list of echos they carried and a desriptuon of them.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: theoasisbbs.ddns.net:1357 (1:153/757.26)

Hello Charles!

** On Wednesday 16.12.20 - 03:41, Charles Pierson wrote to August Abolins:

Fidonet or othernets for that matter are not particularly
known to exist outside of the participants for that
matter. Or if they are it's in a vague "old fashioned
computer thing" that gets an occasional nostalgia article
in computer articles.

With reminds me.. how's your fidonet article coming along?

It's no good for example to have 3 different BBSes to
boast that they carry Fidonet, when all 3 of them carry
different combinations and/or only a handful of echos
and never plan to change.

Fidonet is not a business, Its a platform for and by
hobbiests. These hobbiests have different interests, so
their BBSes are going to reflect thay.

Not a business - of course, I know that. But it consists of
talented sysops who love solving coding and config problems -
and maybe to look at new solutions to long-standing problems.

You aren't likely to convince very many sysops to change
how they do things. The way you would like things to be
only stands a chance of happening is for people with
views like yours to start BBSes in the way you would like
to see them.

Maybe a conversation like this could encourage new ideas
though.

If "bot" is the closest to real-time, that would be
great!

They post in the STATS echo. Which youpve already said is
mind numbing for you.

You have no idea what is mind numbing for me. ;) Personally,
I love stats and database things. Wrt to the STATS echo, I
was reflecting on it from an average chatting user's pov - not
a statistician's pov.

You have ECHO_ADS for Moderators to post about their
echos.

Yes.. that is useful for annoucing/reminding people about the
existence of specific echos. But it doesn't provide the info
on which BBSes they can be found.

The best thing that I can come up with for a typical BBS
would be the sysop could post a bulletin with a list of
echos they carried and a desriptuon of them.

I like the sound of a broadcast bulletin, as opposed to an
isolated bulletin on a BBS that might never be visited
otherwise.


--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.47
* Origin: Got mobile? FUTURE4FIDO = https://tinyurl.com/yx9z6d37 (2:221/1.58)

Charles Pierson wrote to August Abolins <=-

Fidonet is not a business, Its a platform for and by hobbiests. These hobbiests have different interests, so their BBSes are going to reflect thay.

You aren't likely to convince very many sysops to change how they do things. The way you would like things to be only stands a chance of happening is for people with views like yours to start BBSes in the way you would like to see them.

I think it's safe to say that most BBS message areas break down in to
3 categories:

1. Just the message areas the sysop reads
2. The whole echolist
3. Whatever echoes have traffic in posts to the STATS echo

I'm in camp number 3; unfortunately it's counter-productive as it
promotes traffic in existing echoes instead of promoting new/quiet
echoes.

I've always wanted BBS software that would auto-add areas when
received, and prune them when dead for a set period of time.
Subscribe to everything your uplink has and let the BBS sort the
areas out...

Regarding "private" echoes that aren't advertised, I don't understand
that. I've seen some people complaining about the backbone list and
the echolist based on fear of someone exerting control or censorship
over echoes, but how else are you going to advertise them and get new
contributors?

It would be nice if there was a more consolidated (and real-time) w announce active/live echos.

You aren't going to get real-time with FTN Technology. The best you'lll is those systems that have bots or whatever that post stats from their systems.

If "bot" is the closest to real-time, that would be great!

They post in the STATS echo. Which youpve already said is mind numbing
for you.

You have ECHO_ADS for Moderators to post about their echos.

The best thing that I can come up with for a typical BBS would be the sysop could post a bulletin with a list of echos they carried and a desriptuon of them.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: theoasisbbs.ddns.net:1357 (1:153/757.26)

... Are there sections? Consider transitions
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

August Abolins wrote to Charles Pierson <=-

With reminds me.. how's your fidonet article coming along?

Imagine if they had a restriction to only discussion of Fidonews
articles in the Fidonews echo? There'd need to be some articles
first.

You have ECHO_ADS for Moderators to post about their
echos.

Yes.. that is useful for annoucing/reminding people about the
existence of specific echos. But it doesn't provide the info
on which BBSes they can be found.

It might be a good idea for ECHO_ADS posters to ask people to call
their BBS to check out the echo. Getting additional user traffic
doesn't hurt, either.

Moderators posting a list of BBSes active in the echo wouldn't be hard.
Many mail tossers can create stats for specific areas as well, which would
show which BBSes are connected and are active in the group.

It might help liven up those monthly rules postings.



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On 16 Dec 2020, Kurt Weiske said the following...

I think it's safe to say that most BBS message areas break down in to
3 categories:

1. Just the message areas the sysop reads
2. The whole echolist
3. Whatever echoes have traffic in posts to the STATS echo

I'm in camp number 3; unfortunately it's counter-productive as it
promotes traffic in existing echoes instead of promoting new/quiet
echoes.

I based my earlier comment based on conversations I've seen. And agree there are more types than I suggested.

I'm just getting this board going, so right now it's message areas I'm interested in for the most part. But it's running Fido based on my point address. Once I get my actual node number, that will likely change.

I've always wanted BBS software that would auto-add areas when
received, and prune them when dead for a set period of time.
Subscribe to everything your uplink has and let the BBS sort the
areas out...

I know that there is software that autocreates areas, the pruning would be
nice though.

Regarding "private" echoes that aren't advertised, I don't understand
that. I've seen some people complaining about the backbone list and
the echolist based on fear of someone exerting control or censorship
over echoes, but how else are you going to advertise them and get new
contributors?

I don't understand it either. But a lot of it baffles me.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: theoasisbbs.ddns.net:1357 (1:153/757.26)

BY: Bob Roberts(1:218/840)


|11BR|09> |10We need to be ready incase Fidonet gets popular overnight. It's built|07
|11BR|09> |10to scale baby! Proven performance. <slaps roof of fidonet>. This baby|07
|11BR|09> |10is battle tested!|07
I might write an essay teaching people how to be bbs users and how to setup their own bbses when facebook and twitter start going postal at its users.


--- WWIV 5.6.0.3368
* Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (1:218/109)

|11BR|09> |10We need to be ready incase Fidonet gets popular overnight. It's built|07
|11BR|09> |10to scale baby! Proven performance. <slaps roof of fidonet>. This baby|07
|11BR|09> |10is battle tested!|07
I might write an essay teaching people how to be bbs users and how to setup their own bbses when
facebook and twitter start going postal at its users.

Fidonet is fairly decentralized and distributed.

I remember when Scientology was at war with Usenet, they had no central authority to go after, so they tried to send thousands of cancel posts. Was not very successful as far as I know.
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
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