How do you find the grammar in the following de-
scription of an incident from my workplace?
A colleaque leans into the doorway of my office
and asks me rather amiably:
-- Anton, will you go to lunch with us?
-- Yeah, directly, -- answer I,
upon which he leans out, makes a step down the pas-
sage, and exlaims "Oh, fuck" in gunuine anguish.
I grew surprised and embarrased because other people
had seen and heard this unexpected reaction to my
harmless answer, and went to investigate. My col-
league had sworn when he badly struck his shoulder
or elbow upon the door jamb or some such 0structural
element while clearing the doorway :-)
-- Anton, will you go to lunch with us?
-- Yeah, directly, -- answer I,
Directly???
Taking aside "directly" I think that the question "will
you" demands the answer like "Yeah, I will".
IMHO it is very unusual how you switched times from present
to past. I believe you should use the past tense in every
sentence.
PS: also note that your direct speech punctuation is like in
the Russian language, not in English.
Taking aside "directly" I think that the question
"will you" demands the answer like "Yeah, I will".
I don't know many people nowadays who would say "anon",
as Juliet did more than four centuries ago. Either way
I understand the intent. But since I have no idea who
Anton's colleagues are I'd hesitate to suggest he use
the word "yeah" or add "hang on a sec", as I might do
with family & friends.
Well, if you have good relations with your office
colleges
-- why not?
The only thing, I think, you should not confuse them
with very clever or tricky words.
I believe the trauma the Anton's college had got was
connected exactly with such a confusion. He thought so
hard on the word "directly" that he struck the door
jamb with his forehead. ;-)
Well, if you have good relations with your office colleges -- why
not? The only thing, I think, you should not confuse them with
very clever or tricky words. I believe the trauma the Anton's
college had got was connected exactly with such a confusion. He
thought so hard on the word "directly" that he struck the door
jamb with his forehead. ;-)
P.S.: Pray pardon the lack of proper Fidonet quoting. I am posing
from my new Raspberry Pi, to which I have hot had time to
migrate my text-formatting facilities. Alexander, have you a
version of your Protestant... no Reformator program in the
form a Vim module?
Question in Subject, Anton!
Re: Which model of Your Raspberry Pi?
Why, "directly" is a word of which the temporal meaning is obviously straight-forward (the pun intended). I am certain it was used in
Why, "directly" is a word of which the temporal meaning is
obviously straight-forward (the pun intended). I am certain it was
used in
Using "directly" as a time response is very old-fashioned, and I don't think I've ever heard it actually used in speech in my lifetime. The occasional play, perhaps, and some older books, but never in speech.
The closest we come to it now would "at once", or "immediately".
BTW, what about you?
Do you have in Canada COVID19 quarantine for old people?
Is it strict of something?
Yes, but, Dallas, how to historically represent "direct mail"?
Well, if you have good relations with your office colleges -- why
not? The only thing, I think, you should not confuse them with
very clever or tricky words. I believe the trauma the Anton's
college had got was connected exactly with such a confusion. He
thought so hard on the word "directly" that he struck the door
jamb with his forehead.
Why, "directly" is a word of which the temporal meaning is
obviously straight-forward (the pun intended). I am certain it was
used in everyday conversation because Leo Tolstoy makes Nekhlyudov
employ it in his excellent late novel "Resurrection", of which the
early translations into English omit some very interesing parts,
notably Tolstoy's observations on the hypocrisy of sweraring in
court upon the Bible -- *the* book that forbits any swearing
whatsoever.
The 1960 Soviet adaptation of the book is as good as can be.
P.S.: Pray pardon the lack of proper Fidonet quoting. I am
posing from my new Raspberry Pi, to which I have hot
had time to migrate my text-formatting facilities.
Alexander, have you a version of your Protestant... no
Reformator program in the form a Vim module?
BTW, what about you?
And you? I hear Moscow is affected as well... (sigh).
Do you have in Canada COVID19 quarantine for old people? Is it
strict of something?
The current rules are subject to change... and various provinces
may be doing things a bit differently. But from what I see,
quarantine is required only if a person actually has this disease
or is returning from SomePlace Else. Others are advised to self-
isolate, particularly if they are at risk because of their age or
because of a medical condition which leaves the immune system in a depressed state. The distinction is often overlooked in news
reports.... :-))
I write from my new Corel Draw &-)
I write from my new Corel Draw &-)
although Miss Stickler turned a deaf ear when I didn't
speak formal English, many of the people I worked with
in the restaurant business seemed genuinely baffled when
I did... [wry grin].
Again it depends on the collective you work in.
Once I lived in some hotel in Grenoble, France
-- all the personal
was always gloomy and they never smiled. And they
didn't speak English. ;-)
And you? I hear Moscow is affected as well... (sigh).
For a while I am well.Glad to hear it. Thus far... touch wood... so are we. Ex-Brits may
say "knock on wood", but the meaning is the same. The objective is
to frighten off evil spirits who enjoy messing with success.
Although, I think that deaths from a long quarantine can be more
numerable than from the virus. Working was the thing that kept
relatives apart. (black humour).
Yes, we've heard other comments to much the same effect. :-))
The most crazy thing in it is that Putin has imposed the same
measures across all Russia.
That may not be such a bad idea. We heard about a guy who returned
to the Northwest Territories after a trip through BC & Alberta...
and infected others in his home town. Population density is not the
only risk factor.
I even heard a story about a man who stroll alone along
the sea, and he was caught by the police, for violating
self isolation.
Hmm. The difference between quarantine & self-isolation, AFAIC, is
that if you're quarantined you may not leave your home for any
reason. If you are voluntarily self-isolating the degree of
strictness is more flexible. You can shop for groceries or take a
walk as long as you remain at a safe distance (currently defined as
6 feet or 2 metres) from anybody who doesn't live in the same
household. Or you can eagerly accept a friend's offer to add a few
items to their shopping cart & deliver them to your place on their
way home....
Thank God, for a while it is a house arrest. But the measures are
crazy and excessive. As Putin says "we react in advance".
Another bit of gallows humour:
Q. (looking at the family dog) Mom, why are humans wearing muzzles?
A. Because they're not bright enough to learn "sit" and "stay".
What seems excessive to some folk may not be to others. Awhile ago
the police in Victoria BC responded to complaints from the
neighbours about a noisy party which continued until well after
11:00 PM. The participants were fined. Some apparently felt they
deserved a treat after being good for a few days....: - Q
Although we have now quite many infected people and a very low
death rate among them. But nobody pays
attention at the statistics.
I find the statistics confusing at times because we still have much
to learn about this disease. But there's some evidence that the
death rate is lower in jurisdictions where the authorities have
been more proactive....
I find the statistics confusing at times because we
still have much to learn about this disease. But there's some
evidence that the death rate is lower in jurisdictions where the
authorities have been more proactive.... :-)
And also is clear that if you keep quarantine and the number of
positively tested people has been rocketing after the virus
incubation period passed, it means that the virus is already
widespread and the quarantine has no effect.
The tests only light the limited area of the problem, as the
light spot of a flashlight is getting bigger on the floor while
you make the light cone wider.
The most crazy thing in it is that Putin has imposed the
same measures across all Russia.
That may not be such a bad idea. We heard about a guy who
returned to the Northwest Territories after a trip through
BC & Alberta... and infected others in his home town.
Population density is not the only risk factor.
Covid19's death toll in Russia is 0.8% of the number of infected
people. Most people have the easy form of it of have no symptoms
at all. There can be many reasons for that, but what is clear
that Russian authority prefer not to note this fact.
It is a very convenient moment for Putin to extend his grip on
the country.
I even heard a story about a man who stroll alone along
the sea, and he was caught by the police, for violating
self isolation.
Yes, we can go to shop. But what is more dangerous - a single man
walking along the sea or people from all the town shoping in the
same shop? Where the limit of craziness?
But if we look at numbers:
https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/united-states-influenza-pneumonia
The death toll from influenza and pneumonia is 80.5 thousand
people per season (the number of 2017). 220 people per day. But
every epidemic as we know from history lasts usually 2 months. It
means that during the days of the epidemic the death toll is 6
times higher than average death toll! I.E 1323 person per day.
Now suppose the American media, in 2017, would have announced
that the US has an awful epidemic, and every day the country is
going to lose 1300 people per day during three months!!! (some
days more some days less). Will it be hysteria and panic? No
doubt about that. The epidemic of COVID19 is a media epidemic.
Although we have now quite many infected people and a very
low death rate among them. But nobody pays
attention at the statistics.
I find the statistics confusing at times because we still
have much to learn about this disease. But there's some
evidence that the death rate is lower in jurisdictions where
the authorities have been more proactive....
It doesn't matter how much people is in quarantine. The death
toll is measured when we take the number of infected+recovered
people and the number of people who died.
It is well known that majority of people don't have any
symptoms while being ill with COVID19 or they are ill in an easy
form.
And also is clear that if you keep quarantine and the number of
positively tested people has been rocketing after the virus
incubation period passed, it means that the virus is already
widespread and the quarantine has no effect.
How do you know that? In my opinion, without the quarrantine and self-isolation the figures whould have been even worse.
The most crazy thing in it is that Putin has imposed the same
measures across all Russia.
No, he has not. He has left a lot of freedom for municipalities,
with exactly the purpose of adapting the measures to the situations
in earch region.
That may not be such a bad idea. We heard about a guy who
returned to the Northwest Territories after a trip through BC &
Alberta... and infected others in his home town. Population
density is not the only risk factor.
Covid19's death toll in Russia is 0.8% of the number of infected
people. Most people have the easy form of it of have no symptoms
at all. There can be many reasons for that, but what is clear that
Russian authority prefer not to note this fact.
In what way do they overlook this fact?
It is a very convenient moment for Putin to extend his grip on the
country.
In what way?
I even heard a story about a man who stroll alone along
the sea, and he was caught by the police, for violating
self isolation.
And was he not violating self-isolation? Had he not been warned of
the consiquences of this violation?
Yes, we can go to shop. But what is more dangerous - a single man
walking along the sea or people from all the town shopping in the
same shop? Where the limit of craziness?
There is a difference: you can live without a relaxing saunter, but
you cannot live without food or some crucial medicine. It is for
the same reason that you may walk your dog but may not your child.
But if we look at numbers:
https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/united-states-influenza-pneumonia
The death toll from influenza and pneumonia is 80.5 thousand
people per season (the number of 2017). 220 people per day. But
every epidemic as we know from history lasts usually 2 months. It
means that during the days of the epidemic the death toll is 6
times higher than average death toll! I.E 1323 person per day.
Now suppose the American media, in 2017, would have announced that
the US has an awful epidemic, and every day the country is going
to lose 1300 people per day during three months!!! (some days more
some days less). Will it be hysteria and panic? No doubt about
that. The epidemic of COVID19 is a media epidemic.
Not at all, but you confuse the relative death rate and the
absolute death toll. The death rate from COVID-19 is thirty of so
time hither than that of the common seasonal flu, which means that
the coronavirus is thirty times the deadler!
Although we have now quite many infected people and a very low
death rate among them. But nobody pays
attention at the statistics.
How do you know that, really?
I find the statistics confusing at times because we still have
much to learn about this disease. But there's some evidence that
the death rate is lower in jurisdictions where the authorities
have been more proactive....
It doesn't matter how much people is in quarantine. The death toll
is measured when we take the number of infected+recovered people
and the number of people who died.
No, death toll is simply the number of people who have died, it has nothing to do with how many have contracted COVID and recovered.
It is well known that majority of people don't have any symptoms
while being ill with COVID19 or they are ill in an easy form.
Which makes self-isolation the more important, does it not?
Hi, Anton Shepelev! ->Alexander Koryagin
I read your message from 22.04.2020 16:43
And also is clear that if you keep quarantine and the
number of positively tested people has been rocketing after
the virus incubation period passed, it means that the virus
is already widespread and the quarantine has no effect.
How do you know that? In my opinion, without the quarrantine
and self-isolation the figures whould have been even worse.
The idea is this -- let them suppose we have at the start 10000
infected people hidden in Moscow. The incubation period of the
covid19 is 2 weeks. If we put the city on quarantine we expect
that in 2 weeks sick people will either be well or they end up in
hospital.
But after the quarantine they have 4-5 thousand infected people
per 60 thousand tests every day. It means the epidemic cannot be
controlled by the quarantine.
How do you know that? In my opinion, without the quarrantine
and self-isolation the figures whould have been even worse.
Probably because too many people continue working, shopping etc.
It means we should do as they do in Sweden and allow people to
overcome illness and get immunity.
The most crazy thing in it is that Putin has imposed the
same measures across all Russia.
No, he has not. He has left a lot of freedom for
municipalities, with exactly the purpose of adapting the
measures to the situations in earch region.
There is no such freedom in Russia.
And there are no local leaders who can do things on their own.
It is safe for them to copy Moscow measures.
Covid19's death toll in Russia is 0.8% of the number of
infected people. Most people have the easy form of it of
have no symptoms at all. There can be many reasons for
that, but what is clear that Russian authority prefer not
to note this fact.
In what way do they overlook this fact?
They try to persuade us that in Russia the situation is like in
Italy and Spain.
They have created panic, psychosis [...]
and under this gravy they make from Russia a state fully
controlled by the KGB and police.
Yesterday for instance, they created a new law for increasing
police power.
It is a very convenient moment for Putin to extend his grip
on the country.
In what way?
Now KGB is creating a system to control every sneeze and test it.
Nowdays people are arrested during meetings for democracy, then
they will be arrested right after leaving their flats.
They want to be able to control every person using millions of
cameras and other spying tricks.
For instance, they enforce people to install spy apps in their
smartphones.
And was he not violating self-isolation? Had he not been
warned of the consiquences of this violation?
Every measure must be justified.
There is a difference: you can live without a relaxing
saunter, but you cannot live without food or some crucial
medicine. It is for the same reason that you may walk your
dog but may not your child.
Now everybody uses a safe distance 1.5 meters.
If person is alone and there is no people around 50 meters from
him it is imbecility to arrest him or make out a fine.
Not at all, but you confuse the relative death rate and the
absolute death toll. The death rate from COVID-19 is thirty
of so time hither than that of the common seasonal flu,
which means that the coronavirus is thirty times the deadler!
It is not correct. In the US covid19 will hardly overpass the
mentioned number 80.5 thousand -- the death toll from flu and
pneumonia in 2017. In Russia his death toll much low that in the
US.
Although we have now quite many infected people and a
very low death rate among them. But nobody pays
attention at the statistics.
How do you know that, really?
Well look at the statistic at https://koronavirus-ncov.ru/koronavirus-v-rossii-v-cifrah
Most people are ill without symptoms; the death percentage is
0.8%. And it is clear that the real number of the infected people
many times higher.
So the death toll in Russia is smaller than 0.8%.
No, death toll is simply the number of people who have died,
it has nothing to do with how many have contracted COVID and
recovered.
But how do _you_ count the death percentage?
It is well known that majority of people don't have any
symptoms while being ill with COVID19 or they are ill in an
easy form.
Which makes self-isolation the more important, does it not?
In reality there is no self-isolation. There are a lot of people
who continue to work, all people continue interact with each
other, visit shops etc.
The epidemic has been going on as it went before. It stops soon,
right after the moment when a more than 70% population have had
it.
<skipped>And also is clear that if you keep quarantine and the number of
positively tested people has been rocketing after the virus
incubation period passed, it means that the virus is already
widespread and the quarantine has no effect.
How do you know that? In my opinion, without the quarrantine and
self-isolation the figures whould have been even worse.
The idea is this -- let them suppose we have at the start 10000
infected people hidden in Moscow. The incubation period of the
covid19 is 2 weeks. If we put the city on quarantine we expect
that in 2 weeks sick people will either be well or they end up in
hospital.
I fear you are misusing terms again. Nobody put Moscow on
quarantine.
But after the quarantine they have 4-5 thousand infected people
per 60 thousand tests every day. It means the epidemic cannot be
controlled by the quarantine.
Again, no global quarantine has been put in effect in Moscow. Your conclusion that it does not work from the statistics is too
simplistic. I asked:
How do you know that? In my opinion, without the quarrantine and
self-isolation the figures whould have been even worse.
What is your answer?
They have created panic, psychosis [...]
Again, I live in the Moscow region and see no sings of a panic or psychosis. On the contrary -- people are calm and too careless, too well-at-ease.
Now KGB is creating a system to control every sneeze and test it.
KGB? I am sure it was the government in open cooperation with the
medical institutions.
Nowdays people are arrested during meetings for democracy, then
they will be arrested right after leaving their flats.
I once saw a meeting summouned by one Navalnyj. He had thosands of befuddled teenages chant in rythm: "Putin is a thief! Putin is a
thief!". That is not was not a constructive meeting but a low and
amoral mass manipulation. Such meetings should not be allowed at
all. So it all depends on what people say and do at the meeting,
and!?! democracy' is a hackneyed, inflated, and abused word.
They want to be able to control every person using millions of
cameras and other spying tricks.
What kind of control do you mean? Survelliance cameras are indeed
widely used and sometimes abused -- all over the world.
For instance, they enforce people to install spy apps in their
smartphones.
Say what? A Russian citizen is not obliged to own even a cell
phone! I have a cell phone, but no smartphone. I haven't heard that anybody was obliged to intall a spying program on their smartphone, althoug such programs are preinstalled in plenty on Google and
Apple smarphones.
Not at all. Nobody is going to hire a commision of independent
experts to estimate the proximity of other people througout the
course of every careless person's walk. The requirement is safe and simple: you may leave your home only if you a have a need to. If
you dislike it, propose your own, and it better be clear,
unambiguous, and verifiable. Yes, it must be verifieable, or it is
fluff.
Some do it less, some more carefully, and some not at all. Self-
isolation can never be perfect, but it decreases social interation,
slows down the propagation of the virus, and relieves the strain on
the medical system, letting them save more lives by keeping the
load within their capacity.
I fear you are misusing terms again. Nobody put Moscow on<skipped>
quarantine.
What is quarantine according to you?
How do you know that? In my opinion, without the
quarrantine and self-isolation the figures whould have
been even worse.
What is your answer?
There is a big doubt about it.
The average death toll can be higher but it is important how to
count deaths. There are millions of people who die every year
from variety of illnesses. If a person with flu dies from
diabetes or oncology, cardiovascular disease etc -- only crazy
people can put such deaths on flu's account.
Another matter with covid - now WHO tells us that if a person
dies and he/she has a covid virus - it should be treated as a
death from covid.
That's why many countries have so different statistics.
Now Russia also began count it in such a way,
and death toll in Russia began growing quickly. It is a dirty
trick.
I have already explained to you the quarantine idea. It can be
tried. But if after this measure covid tests continue to show
mass infection -- such quarantine should be lifted because it is
useless and cripples economy.
It means that huge masses of the police, National Guard troops,
Government structures, workers of important plants, shops who
keep working, and usual people who shopping -- are, all together,
a perfect engine to spread covid19.
Another factor is that there are huge masses of infected/recovered
people who don't know that they were infected/ill with covid19,
so they are out of statistics.
Vast majority of them is without symptoms or almost without them.
Nobody tested them. These people are the main engine of the
infection.
But we know that if 70% of the population catch the
illness and recover the epidemic stops.
So we should isolate old or sick people and let other people live
a normal life.
In this case the average year death toll will be as a normal
death toll from flu/pneumonia.
The excessive deaths in Italy and the US are also because of
unpreparedness and lack of knowledge how to defend themselves
from the virus. But now the safe measures for old and sick people
can be implemented adequately.
They have created panic, psychosis [...]
Again, I live in the Moscow region and see no sings of a
panic or psychosis. On the contrary -- people are calm and
too careless, too well-at-ease.
Panic was created not for people -- it is a cover, a
justification for freedom to be giving away.
KGB? I am sure it was the government in open cooperation
with the medical institutions.
There are medical specialists who think in other way, but they
are not allowed on state TV.
I once saw a meeting summouned by one Navalnyj. He had
thosands of befuddled teenages chant in rythm: "Putin is a
thief! Putin is a thief!". That is not was not a
constructive meeting but a low and amoral mass manipulation.
Such meetings should not be allowed at all. So it all
depends on what people say and do at the meeting, and!?!
democracy' is a hackneyed, inflated, and abused word.
Democracy in Russia was shot and killed from tanks in 1993.
This app gives people a pass to go out. You cannot even ride your
own car without it.
But read the comments in Google Play.
Under the constitution people can be ordered such things only
after Emergency status has been introduced in the country.
So all the orders which we hear now are completely lawlessness,
and KGB and Putin do what occur to them.
Some do it less, some more carefully, and some not at all. Self-isolation can never be perfect, but it decreases
social interation, slows down the propagation of the virus,
and relieves the strain on the medical system, letting them
save more lives by keeping the load within their capacity.
I have heard enough lie from the state TV.
The vast majority of people who put into infectious diseases
hospitals have mild or no symptoms of covid.
The average death toll can be higher but it is important how to
count deaths. There are millions of people who die every year from
variety of illnesses. If a person with flu dies from diabetes or
oncology, cardiovascular disease etc -- only crazy people can put
such deaths on flu's account.
It is not so simple, because many deathds due to COVID-19 have been
caused by various compications and aggravations of pre-existent
chronic illnesses, often on the background of a weak immune system.
Are you familliar with the chaos theory and its herarchy of causes?
Another matter with covid - now WHO tells us that if a person dies
and he/she has a covid virus - it should be treated as a death
from covid.
What do you mean? The cause of every single death is alway
investigated according to our general law, which has nothing to do
with the temporary anti-COVID measures. No doubt, special attention
is being paid to the testing and diagnosis of COVID during this
pandemic.
That's why many countries have so different statistics.Why do you exclude the natural suggestion of different
epidemiolocal situations existing in different countries on account
of such factors as population density, habits, and measures taken?
Now Russia also began count it in such a way,What way, exactly?
Read it in Russian: https://www.svoboda.org/a/30574844.htmland death toll in Russia began growing quickly. It is a dirty
trick.
You seem to imply that we have changed the method of calculating
deaths due to COVID-19. If so, what evidence do you have of it?
Another factor is that there are huge masses of infected/recovered
people who don't know that they were infected/ill with covid19, so
they are out of statistics.
If so, how do you know that they exist?
Vast majority of them is without symptoms or almost without them.
Yes, I have heard of the symptomless development of the infecion,
but is reported to be around 25%:
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread.html
It not a "vast majory", as you say.I summed "without symptom + those with mild symptoms". People with mild symptoms also don't go to the hospital.
So we should isolate old or sick people and let other people live
a normal life.
Do you realise how hard it is to isolate the old from the young? Do
you propose a network of concentration camps?
Do you realise that
it is not only old people that die by COVID? The first reporter of
the beginning pandemic, now China's and the World's hero Li
Winliang, died of the virus at 33:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Wenliang
In this case the average year death toll will be as a normal death
toll from flu/pneumonia.
First, what makes you thing so? Second, it is atrocious to
sacrifice even a single human life, regardless of statistics.
Under the constitution people can be ordered such things only
after Emergency status has been introduced in the country.
Interesting. But it is a poor constituion that does not let the
government to defend its people from a pandemic without an all-out emergecy.
It is not so simple, because many deathds due to COVID-19
have been caused by various compications and aggravations of pre-existent chronic illnesses, often on the background of a
weak immune system. Are you familliar with the chaos theory
and its herarchy of causes?
You don't hear me -- I have already told you that flu also
aggravates many chronic illnesses, but nobody blames flu for
deaths from that many illnesses. Present day statistic about
covid19 deaths is not correct.
I told you that WHO ordered that covid19 deaths to be counted
differently than deaths of flue/pneumonia.
Now Russia also began count it in such a way,What way, exactly?
If a person dies and he has been tested positively - this death is
counted now as a death of covid.
and death toll in Russia began growing quickly. It is a
dirty trick.
You seem to imply that we have changed the method of
calculating deaths due to COVID-19. If so, what evidence do
you have of it?
Read it in Russian: https://www.svoboda.org/a/30574844.html
Another factor is that there are huge masses of
infected/recovered people who don't know that they were
infected/ill with covid19, so they are out of statistics.
If so, how do you know that they exist?
The US does numerous tests for covid19 antibodies - the marks
that a person has recovered from the virus. The tests show that a
huge number of people have such antibodies and their illness was
not registered when they were ill.
Vast majority of them is without symptoms or almost without
them.
Yes, I have heard of the symptomless development of the
infecion, but is reported to be around 25%:
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread.html
Up to 50% here: https://www.healthline.com/health-news/50-percent-of-people-with-covid19-not-aware-have-virus
It not a "vast majory", as you say.I summed "without symptom + those with mild symptoms". People
with mild symptoms also don't go to the hospital.
So we should isolate old or sick people and let other
people live a normal life.
Do you realise how hard it is to isolate the old from the
young? Do you propose a network of concentration camps?
Nothing will change. ;) Now old and young are locked in the same
flats. ;-\
Do you realise that
it is not only old people that die by COVID? The first
reporter of the beginning pandemic, now China's and the
World's hero Li Winliang, died of the virus at 33:
Every rule have exceptions.
In this case the average year death toll will be as a
normal death toll from flu/pneumonia.
First, what makes you thing so? Second, it is atrocious to
sacrifice even a single human life, regardless of statistics.
Every years tens of thousand people dies from cold.
It is cynical, but it is a "normal" number.
Under the constitution people can be ordered such things
only after Emergency status has been introduced in the
country.
Interesting. But it is a poor constituion that does not let
the government to defend its people from a pandemic without
an all-out emergecy.
Law is law.
If there is the state of emergency the authority has right to
demand people to comply with their orders, but people and
business will get many possibilities to reduce its losses! As a
force major, they could suspend rental, credit payment --
it is awful when people are prohibited from working but they
should pay everything as usual.
A swinish situation.
Tell, if you know, whether the police have the right
Ex-Brits may say "knock on wood", but the meaning is
the same. The objective is to frighten off evil spirits
who enjoy messing with success.
Do you spit over your left shoulder? ;)
Do you spit over your left shoulder? ;)
Sounds like quite a feat... I'm not sure I could pull
that off.
Do you spit over your left shoulder? ;)
Sounds like quite a feat... I'm not sure I could pull that off.
I think you misunderstand the instrction. The task is to hit the
invisible devil that ever sittenth on thy left shoulder. It seems sufficient, for the purpose, to spit to the left and just a tad
backwards -- in the eight o'clock direction.
It is not so simple, because many deathds due to COVID-19 have
been caused by various compications and aggravations of pre-
existent chronic illnesses, often on the background of a weak
immune system. Are you familliar with the chaos theory and its
herarchy of causes?
You don't hear me -- I have already told you that flu also
aggravates many chronic illnesses, but nobody blames flu for
deaths from that many illnesses. Present day statistic about
covid19 deaths is not correct.
I am sorry. Now I see what you mean and wonder how you know that
the death-attribution (what is the right term?) methods for the
common flu and for COVID-19 are so very different?
Another question -- do I understand your paragraph above as
implying the World Health Organisation, and the governments of all
the affected states are in collustion about using widely different standards for accouting deaths due to COVID-19 and due to all other diseases?
I told you that WHO ordered that covid19 deaths to be counted
differently than deaths of flue/pneumonia.
I missed it. Where did you say that? Did you provide a reference to
an official WHO regulation?
You seem to imply that we have changed the method of calculating
deaths due to COVID-19. If so, what evidence do you have of it?
Read it in Russian: https://www.svoboda.org/a/30574844.html
Although I am chary of reading such openly rusophobic resources,
this article was not bad. It even has a very good explanation and justification of the new death-accounting method. I have no
objections. It is not a dirty trick, as you call it, but a way to
account deaths that would not have happened then and there if the
person had not contracted the virus. Even with the corrections for
this method of calculation, the author of that article esitmates
the lethality of COVID as up to 10 times higher than that of the
common flu.
The US does numerous tests for covid19 antibodies - the marks that
a person has recovered from the virus. The tests show that a huge
number of people have such antibodies and their illness was not
registered when they were ill.
Very well, but how come these people are "out of statistics", if
they have been tested?
Do you realise that it is not only old people that die by COVID?
The first reporter of the beginning pandemic, now China's and the
World's hero Li Winliang, died of the virus at 33:
Every rule have exceptions.
These are not, strictly speaking, exceptions. The relatively low
(yes statistically stable) death rate among the young is not a
reason at all to risk their lives. They may be "exceptions" to some cabinet statistician or a soulless government official in Sweden,
but they are dearly loved ones to their friends and relatives. What
will you say to them -- I am sorry, but your brother died because
he turned out to be an exception to our staticical distribution?
Every years tens of thousand people dies from cold.They freeze to death?
Under the constitution people can be ordered such things only
after Emergency status has been introduced in the country.
Interesting. But it is a poor constituion that does not let the
government to defend its people from a pandemic without an all-
out emergecy.
Law is law.
Tell, if you know, whether the police have the right to limit the
freedom of movement and travel of a man infected with some super-
lethal and super infectious disease, such as the black pox? IMHO,
they are oblived to do so in order to protect the other people's
rights for life. What do you think?
Is it only the Russian "liberals" that turn to constituion when everybody's first and foremost care should be of their own and
other's health?
If there is the state of emergency the authority has right to
demand people to comply with their orders, but people and business
will get many possibilities to reduce its losses! As a force
major, they could suspend rental, credit payment --
I think it would be *much* harder on the economy. Money is not made
out of nothing -- not rubles anyway.
it is awful when people are prohibited from working but they
should pay everything as usual.
In Russia, those prohibited from working are guarranteed to receive
theor usual monthly salary throughout their forced absence from
work due to the pandemic. Rent and credit relaxations are also
enacted.
Ex-Brits may say "knock on wood", but the meaning is the same. The
objective is to frighten off evil spirits who enjoy messing with
success.
Do you spit over your left shoulder?
Sounds like quite a feat... I'm not sure I could pull that off. But
Dallas has just reminded me of another British tradition whereby a
person who's spilled some salt will be advised to throw it over
their left shoulder....
The most common contemporary belief requires you to toss a pinch
of the spilt salt over your left shoulder, into the face of the
Devil who lurks there.
It is not so simple, because many deathds due to COVID-19
have been caused by various compications and aggravations
of pre-existent chronic illnesses, often on the
background of a weak immune system. Are you familliar with
the chaos theory and its herarchy of causes?
You don't hear me -- I have already told you that flu also
aggravates many chronic illnesses, but nobody blames flu for
deaths from that many illnesses.
Present day statistic about covid19 deaths is not correct.
I am sorry. Now I see what you mean and wonder how you know
that the death-attribution (what is the right term?) methods
for the common flu and for COVID-19 are so very different?
Dr. Deborah Birx, the response coordinator for the White House
coronavirus task force, said the federal government is continuing
to count the suspected COVID-19 deaths, despite other nations
doing the opposite.
"There are other countries that if you had a pre-existing
condition, and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU
[intensive care unit] and then have a heart or kidney problem,"
she said during a Tuesday news briefing at the White House. "Some
countries are recording that as a heart issue or a kidney issue
and not a COVID-19 death.
Read it in Russian: https://www.svoboda.org/a/30574844.html
Although I am chary of reading such openly rusophobic
resources, this article was not bad. It even has a very good
explanation and justification of the new death-accounting
method. I have no objections. It is not a dirty trick, as
you call it, but a way to account deaths that would not have
happened then and there if the person had not contracted the
virus. Even with the corrections for this method of
calculation, the author of that article esitmates the
lethality of COVID as up to 10 times higher than that of the
common flu.
Who can know "covid19 style" flu death rate if flu was never
accused for chronic people deaths? Most sick people with variety
of illnesses have poor immunity, they often catch cold, pneumonia
and they die. But it is the main chronic illness that had
diminished their immunity, not flu! The same can be told about
covid19.
<skipped>
The US does numerous tests for covid19 antibodies - the
marks that a person has recovered from the virus. The tests
show that a huge number of people have such antibodies and
their illness was not registered when they were ill.
Very well, but how come these people are "out of
statistics", if they have been tested?
Now there is only a rough approach -- the results of antibodies
tests are approximated to all the population.
Do you realise that it is not only old people that die by
COVID? The first reporter of the beginning pandemic, now
China's and the World's hero Li Winliang, died of the
virus at 33:
Every rule have exceptions.
These are not, strictly speaking, exceptions. The relatively
low (yes statistically stable) death rate among the young is
not a reason at all to risk their lives. They may be
"exceptions" to some cabinet statistician or a soulless
government official in Sweden, but they are dearly loved
ones to their friends and relatives. What will you say to
them -- I am sorry, but your brother died because he turned
out to be an exception to our staticical distribution?
Well, if people think as you they will stop the world every
winter to isolate people from tens of thousand deaths from cold
disease.
It is demagogy, and it is funny to hear it.
Every years tens of thousand people dies from cold.They freeze to death?
In English the word "cold" is also an illness. Usually it is flu
or acute viral respiratory infections.
Tell, if you know, whether the police have the right to
limit the freedom of movement and travel of a man infected
with some super- lethal and super infectious disease, such
as the black pox? IMHO, they are oblived to do so in order
to protect the other people's rights for life. What do you
think?
I think that doing it without law opens a vast possibilities for
law violation. Under cover of high words they can do whatever
they like. It must not be so.
it is awful when people are prohibited from working but they
should pay everything as usual.
In Russia, those prohibited from working are guarranteed to
receive theor usual monthly salary throughout their forced
absence from work due to the pandemic. Rent and credit
relaxations are also enacted.
You are probably from the Moon -- people survive in Russia as
they only can,
and the vast majority of Russian economy is grey.
Banks also don't give credits to everybody in need -- they are
not a charity. Putin also refused to give money from state
reserves to people who lost jobs.
To decide whether it is correct or not, one has to ask the doctor:
would that person have died then and there of their heart or kidney
condition had they not contracted COVID-19? If the answer is no,
then we may blame COVID-19, as the the major cause of death. Since
the new virus is more deadly than flu, it is only meet to give it
more weight over other factors in the attribution of death.
Any death is due to the failure of one vital organ or another. Both
seasonal flu and COVID-19 cause death by agrravating a pre-existing
weakness in the organism. If one follows this logic of yours to the
end, one shall conclude that no one has every died by flu or by
COVID-19, which is, obviosly, wrong. Everybody dies becuase their
brain stops working!
Since the new virus is more deadly than flu, it is only meet to
give it more weight over other factors in the attribution of
death.
To decide whether it is correct or not, one has to ask the
doctor: would that person have died then and there of their
heart or kidney condition had they not contracted COVID-19? If
the answer is no, then we may blame COVID-19, as the the major
cause of death. Since the new virus is more deadly than flu, it
is only meet to give it more weight over other factors in the
attribution of death.
Agreed. Some places are doing it that way, while other countries
(and US states) may be counting anyone who tests COVID positive,
even if their death was caused by something completely
unrelated. Fall off a ladder, hit your head, die of trauma, test
positive, dead of Wuhan Coronavirus.
Any death is due to the failure of one vital organ or another.
Both seasonal flu and COVID-19 cause death by agrravating a
pre-existing weakness in the organism. If one follows this
logic of yours to the end, one shall conclude that no one has
every died by flu or by COVID-19, which is, obviosly, wrong.
Everybody dies becuase their brain stops working!
True. At least early on, everyone dying of the virus was
actually dying of a complication from it... pneumonia.
And now they die (or are dying -- which is correct?) from a
wider variety of complications.
I believe that either is actually correct. :)
It was not wind but treacly sirup that came from Inidia.
One's thoughts stuck in it like flies on viscid paper.
It was not wind but treacly sirup that came from Inidia.
One's thoughts stuck in it like flies on viscid paper.
How do you find my translation? -- shall I have writ "was coming"?
I believe Paustovky avoided "blow" because it does not work with
"sirup".
Since the new virus is more deadly than flu, it is only
meet to give it more weight over other factors in the
attribution of death.
Mefears it is an illiterate usage of "meet". Should not
I have written instead: "...it is only meet that it
(should) receive more weight over other factors..."
I have not found a reliable number of instances of "it
is only meet to" in Google books, although I see no
problem with it...
According to the online Merriam-Webster:
si�?rup
less common spelling of SYRUP
Collins online says
sirup
in British English
NOUN
US a less common spelling of syrup
And for interest, WidiDiff says:
Syrup is an alternative form of sirup.
As nouns the difference between syrup and sirup is that syrup is
any thick liquid that is added to or poured over food as a
flavouring and has a high sugar content also any viscous liquid
while sirup is (obsolete) a thick and viscid liquid made from the
juice of fruits, herbs, etc, boiled with sugar.
`flower' and 'fluor'..
My words: summercourse,`flower' and 'fluor'..
`flour'. What is `fluor'?
Inventing new words is a fine game. I have invented `callamity' and
my friend `wintercourse' -- both accompanied with definitions.
Things have changed since 1913 -- the year of the classic
edition of M.-W, which I had the honor of consulting.
And for interest, WidiDiff says:
Syrup is an alternative form of sirup.
As nouns the difference between syrup and sirup is that
syrup is any thick liquid that is added to or poured over
food as a flavouring and has a high sugar content also
any viscous liquid while sirup is (obsolete) a thick and
viscid liquid made from the juice of fruits, herbs, etc,
boiled with sugar.
Although based on an accidental spelling variation, the
distinction is quite useful
Things have changed since 1913 -- the year of the classic
edition of M.-W, which I had the honor of consulting.
Uh-huh. If you're referring to the work of Konstantin
Paustovsky, who was born in 1892 & wrote a lot of historical
fiction, this spelling may reflect the language his characters
would have used.
Since his name is not a household word in North
America, you may need to explain to your readers in E_T that what
you are asking about is a bit different from what they would
generally do. :-Q
Although based on an accidental spelling variation, the
distinction is quite useful
... if your readers are aware of it, which the majority
may not be. I didn't know about it until Dallas pointed it out.
But when the author uses the word "treacly", I think of the
former because "treacle" [UK] = "molasses" [US].
While it was originally derived from sugar cane, some folks
equate it with corn syrup. Most types are already quite sweet &
thus no added sugar is needed. In the US & Canada we also have
maple syrup derived from the sap of trees.... :-)
It was not wind but treacly sirup that came from Inidia.
One's thoughts stuck in it like flies on viscid paper.
How do you find my translation? -- shall I have writ "was coming"?
I believe Paustovky avoided "blow" because it does not work with
"sirup".
I find your translation easy to follow. I see no problem with how it
is worded, other than "sirup" is spelled "syrup." :)
Although English_Tutor's get indentation wrong sometimes too, so I honestlydon't know :)
It was not wind but treacly sirup that came from Inidia.
One's thoughts stuck in it like flies on viscid paper.
How do you find my translation? -- shall I have writ "was
coming"? I believe Paustovky avoided "blow" because it does not
work with "sirup".
I find your translation easy to follow. I see no problem with
how it is worded, other than "sirup" is spelled "syrup." :)
Indentation is very hard to handle in FidoNet - each message
editor has it's own ideas!! It is possible to preceed a section
of text with 2 tilde characters "~" and that's supposed to
prevent reformatting, but with messages going through so many
different systems there's no guarantee it will work.
This next section should have various indents - we'll see what
happens:
level
Indent
More Indent
Yet more indent
and back to level.
:-)
I find your translation easy to follow. I see no problem with
how it is worded, other than "sirup" is spelled "syrup." :)
Thank you, Mike. `sypup' was my initial spelling, but I corrected
it because Merriam-Webster lists `sipup' as the main spelling and
`syrup' as a variant:
I don't think so. Good transfer agents do not meddle with
formatting, so we generally see what the author has written:
This next section should have various indents - we'll see what
happens:
level
Indent
More Indent
Yet more indent
and back to level.
:-)
Fine as Fido:
Things have changed since 1913 -- the year of the classic
edition of M.-W, which I had the honor of consulting.
Uh-huh. If you're referring to the work of Konstantin
Paustovsky, who was born in 1892 & wrote a lot of historical
fiction, this spelling may reflect the language his characters
would have used.
I am finishing his collected works and have not encountered a
lot of historical fiction, except the historical parts of
"Tale of the North" and "Story of the woods", both of which
continue roughly at the time of writing.
There is of course the long poetico-romantico-impressionist-
quasi-autobiographical novel "Story of a Life", but I skipped
it because I had spent too much time, and too recently,
listening to it on radio.
Since his name is not a household word in North America, you
may need to explain to your readers in E_T that what you are
asking about is a bit different from what they would
generally do. :-Q
Good advice, but this time I was not trying make it sound
dated.
[ Syrup / sirup ]
Although based on an accidental spelling variation, the
distinction is quite useful
... if your readers are aware of it, which the majority
may not be. I didn't know about it until Dallas pointed
it out. But when the author uses the word "treacly", I
think of the former because "treacle" [UK] = "molasses" [US].
And I was certain the adjective had become more general than
the noun, i.e.: adj. cloyingly sweet or sentimental.
While it was originally derived from sugar cane, some folks
equate it with corn syrup. Most types are already quite sweet
& thus no added sugar is needed. In the US & Canada we also
have maple syrup derived from the sap of trees.... :-)
Not specifically from maple sap? I like its taste but don't buy
it frequently because the imported product is expensive here.
Some folks consider it acceptable to introduce a tense
change at the beginning of a new paragraph, but AFAIC it's
distracting & unpleasant. I would suggest you pick one or the
other & avoid changing horses in midstream.... :-Q
They were on their wa downstairs again now, and by the time they
had finished with this favorite subject the would be downstairs.
They would be in the dark, flower-bedecked downstairs hall and
just before entering the dining room for the promised
refreshments: the fruit jello, the English tea biscuits, the lime
punch.
And now foor a moment Mr. Dorset bars the way to the dining room
and prevents is sister from opening the closed door. "Now, my
good friends," he says, "let us eat, drink, and be merry!"
"For the night is yet young," says his sister.
"Tonight you must be gayt are carefree," Mr. Dorset enjoins.
"Because in this house we are all frieds," Miss Dorset says.
"We are all young, we all love one another."
"And love cab make ys all yound forever," her brother says.
"Remember!"
"Remember this evening always, sweet young people!"
"Remember!"
"Remember what our life is like here!"
And now Miss Dorset, with one hand on the knob of the great
door which she is about to throw open, leans a little towards the
guests and whispers hoarsely: "This is what it is like to be
young forever!"
Hmm. Peter Taylor may have considered it acceptable to
introduce a tense change at the beginning of a new
paragraph, but I don't see what purpose it serves here.
Furthermore, he has done it in mid-paragraph too!
Ardith Hinton:
Hmm. Peter Taylor may have considered it acceptable to
introduce a tense change at the beginning of a new
paragraph, but I don't see what purpose it serves here.
Furthermore, he has done it in mid-paragraph too! As to
Taylor's purpose in a narraion, I think a brief lapse into
the Present is a kind of emphasizing device -- like zoom and
slow motion in cinematograph (think "Keoma") -- that, if
employed sparingly, can for a short duration intensify the
concentration of the reader through increased "presnece".
Such, at least, is my impression.
If I may, let me ask some questions. My intuition says I should always isolate a vocative in between commas. ``Hi, Anton.'' However, I pretty much never see anyone writing that way. Isn't that a grammar rule?
You wrote ``furthermore, [...]''. That also matches my intuition. But
I often see people ignoring this comma. Perhaps this is an optional
comma. Is it? What is the book you go to to cite such rules?
Speaking of punctuation, I missed a comma before `but'.What about "the" before "comma"?
https://www.ole.bris.ac.uk/bbcswebdav/courses/Study_Skills/grammar-and-punctuation/index.html#/id/5eaff0d388d7eb04c5efb44f
or
https://is.gd/Kt92EF
There are a couple of problems here: first, I can't go
to either of the links, as they both come up as possible
malware sites (meaning that the address shown doesn't
match the address the site itself reports)
https://www.ole.bris.ac.uk/bbcswebdav/courses/Study_Skills/grammar-a nd-punctuation/index.html#/id/5eaff0d388d7eb04c5efb44f
or
https://is.gd/Kt92EF
There are a couple of problems here: first, I can't go
to either of the links, as they both come up as possible
malware sites (meaning that the address shown doesn't
match the address the site itself reports)
They both of them refer to a benign page at the University
of Bristol. You need not fear. I have just gone thither
and come back alive.
Is this rule applicable?
-----Beginning of the citation-----
A comma should be used before these conjunctions: and, but, for, nor,
yet, or, so to separate two independent clauses. They are called co-ordinating conjunctions
https://www.ole.bris.ac.uk/bbcswebdav/courses/Study_Skills/grammar-a nd-punctuation/index.html#/id/5eaff0d388d7eb04c5efb44f
or
https://is.gd/Kt92EF
----- The end of the citation -----
I don't think it optional but Nesfield disagrees:
Speaking of punctuation, I missed a comma before `but'.
Is this comma always required? If so, who stated and where it is
stated?
It's not always (or even often) required. "But" is a conjunction,
not a conjuctive adverb and therefore the comma should or should
not be there based on context (cf. Fowlers <g>).
Interesting. :-) Maybe it decides on what's correct by observing
people's wisdom and in this case it can't really make up its mind.
It's also possible that it chooses based on my previous habits - I'm
going to make a deliberate attempt to use Hi, name for a while and see
if gmail changes its habits!
These references seem to be dictionaries of English usage. Pretty nice. But I'm looking for a respect[ed] grammar book. Do you know any?
I don't think there's much distinction between usage books and grammar
books ... a huge overlap in content and maybe it's just the title that's offputting?
Hi, Wayne -- on Aug 04 2020 at 21:28, you wrote:
I don't think it optional but Nesfield disagrees:
Speaking of punctuation, I missed a comma before `but'.
Is this comma always required? If so, who stated and where it is
stated?
It's not always (or even often) required. "But" is a conjunction, not a conjuctive adverb and therefore the comma should or should not be there
based on context (cf. Fowlers <g>).
Interesting. :-) Maybe it decides on what's correct by observing
people's wisdom and in this case it can't really make up its mind.
These references seem to be dictionaries of English usage. Pretty nice. But I'm looking for a respect grammar book. Do you know any?
My preference is for American English. But in the absence of one, I'll take a British, an Australian, or, of course, a Canadian one! :-)
I don't think it optional but Nesfield disagrees:
Speaking of punctuation, I missed a comma before `but'.
Is this comma always required? If so, who stated and where it is
stated?
I don't think it optional but Nesfield disagrees:Speaking of punctuation, I missed a comma before `but'.
I wrote:Is this comma always required? If so, who stated and where it is
I don't think it optional but Nesfield disagrees:
Speaking of punctuation, I missed a comma before `but'.
stated?
Malwarebytes is a bit, um, oversensitive, at times!
So now I know that /but/ is an adversative conjunction.
That's great.
It seems there is a classification of sentences among
``coordinating sentences'' and ``subordinating sentences''.
Is that correct?
-f-+-c-|-+-a -+-C-+-a-|-U-U-+-+-+-#-+-i-#-i-#-+-C-#-A-e -i-e-+ ---
SBBSecho 3.11-Win32
- Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (1:340/7)
-#-i-#-+-C-#-A-e -i-e-+ ---
SBBSecho 3.11-Win32(1:340/7 <mailto:[email protected]>➔ <http://nodehist.fidonet.org.ua/?address=1%3A340%2F7>)
- Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net
I understand what you & others write in English
here, regardless of the character set they use. But if you want to
write to me in Russian you must understand I know very little of the language & my message editor doesn't allow for the use of Cyrillic characters... so they look like gibberish on my screen. If
you're feeling uncertain about your ability to write in English, I
would suggest you give it a try anyway. That's what we're here for....
:-))
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